Gaining Financial Commitments in Uncertain Times - Transcript

Sunrise Labs Webinar Recording - Panel View 06.17.25
0:01
Good afternoon, everyone.
0:03
I hope you all are doing well today.
0:04
My name is Monty Sylvan and I'm the Coordinator here at Advent for the membership department.
0:10
Today we have a wonderful presentation in the line for you in partnership with Sunrise Labs entitled
Gaining Financial Commitments in Uncertain Times.
0:20
Before we get started, I just want to do some small housekeeping.
0:23
If you have any questions, please ask them in the Q&A section on Zoom and not in the chat.
0:30
We would just want to keep all the questions organized in one space.
0:33
Questions will be held toward the end of the presentation.
0:39
From there, I want to give it off to our moderator and host, Brian Gilpin, President of Sunrise Sunrise
Labs.
0:45
Brian, it's all yours.
0:47
OK, Thank you.
0:48
Monty, can you hear me OK?
0:52
Very good.
0:53
OK, So good morning, good afternoon, good evening to everyone out there who's listening in on this
webinar.
1:01
I'll just start by saying how excited I've been about this webinar and putting this together.
1:07
This has been in the works for quite some time and couldn't be more appropriate for everything that
all of us, all of you are seeing in the Med tech world.
1:17
I can tell you between the last, it'd be certainly for me and my career over the last 12 months and
probably for the next 12 months at least, I have never seen more uncertain times than what we're
going through currently.
1:30
And so I'm really pleased to put together this group of pioneers whom I all know individual and
respect very much, who are all navigating and, and very different ways, but as you'll see, have some
very common, common themes in terms of what they're going through and, and how they're getting
it done.
1:48
You're also going to see three companies in very different stages of their development, everything
from early stage through commercial stage.
1:58
So really excited to have that for you.
2:00
Before we dive in with the first questions, I'd be remiss if I didn't have a chance to introduce myself in
Sunrise Labs again.
2:08
Brian Gilpin, president of Sunrise Labs.
2:11
And for those who don't know us, we're consulting innovation and engineering firm that has been
around for over 30 years.
2:19
We partner with visionary Med tech companies like the ones you see here to transform pioneering
ideas into the medical breakthroughs through deep rooted engineering excellence, regulatory clarity
and a flexible approach built for collaboration.
2:34
And on that last point, we're particularly proud in our ability to empower our clients to live to deliver
what matters most to them through that collaboration.
2:43
And then apropos to today's topic, we find that in highly uncertain times like today, the client and
investors want more than innovation.
2:52
They want the critical thinking and executional confidence so the products have a credible path to
market.
2:58
So we'll get into some more of that here in these discussions.
3:02
And with that, I'll allow the panelists to introduce themselves also through the first question.
3:09
And so maybe Denise and welcome, Bertrand and Ryan, if you don't mind, please start tell us about
yourself, your companies and a little more about your recent financial raise and or your current
financial raise and what you're going through with that.
3:26
And Denise, we'll start with you, then move over to Ryan and then Bertrand.
3:31
Sounds good.
3:32
Hello, everybody.
3:33
Thank you for the warm work.
3:34
Welcome, Brian.
3:36
Denise Iles, I'm the CEO of Cytrellis, very pleased to be here today and and share some of the
experiences, but also the challenges we've we've experienced.
3:47
A brief overview of of who we are.
3:49
We are a commercial stage company and we've created a new category in the aesthetic medicine
space.
3:56
We are focused on on advancing non surgical skin removal and skin rejuvenation with our flagship
technology called Elacor with micro Corning, which is first and only device cleared by the FDA to
remove full thickness micro cores of skin without the use of energy or heat or surgery.
4:16
And that allows to tighten skin, rejuvenate skin, remove wrinkles without creating scars and and also
offer an option for patients that don't want surgery.
4:26
I came on board earlier this year as part of a full restructuring that Centralis was doing.
4:33
And my focus has been on scalable, sustainable growth because as I mentioned, we're commercial
stage.
4:39
I'm an engineer by training.
4:41
I have a PhD in biomedical engineering.
4:44
And therefore, we're growing through innovation, but growing through clinical developments, but
also by rethinking our commercial, commercial strategy as we've been around for a while.
4:57
We are actually in Series D.
5:00
So when when I came on board, a part of that full restructuring included a financing round, which I
will share more details, mostly led by existing investors, but it's a round focused on on growth, on
relaunching our technology after a lot of technical improvements have been made and scaling
globally as well.
5:23
So different challenges than the ones that I'm sure Ryan and and Bertrand will share, but challenging
in itself as well.
5:30
And and yeah, that's a little bit about us.
5:31
And thank you for having me again and I look forward to the discussion.
5:36
Yeah, thank you, Denise and and Ryan, how about you?
5:39
Yeah, so I'm the CEO and Co founder of Craniosense.
5:42
So we are a other end of the spectrum from Denise.
5:47
We're a pre revenue company.
5:49
We have essentially developed a non invasive device to replace invasive sensors for brain pressure
assessment.
5:56
So the only way to diagnose and to continuously monitor brain pressure today is to drill a hole in your
head or hole in your spine.
6:03
We put instead a sticker on your forehead and we can assess it in a matter of minutes as opposed to
patients that wait weeks, months, years to get diagnosed for certain conditions.
6:15
Like I said, we're we're very early stage.
6:17
We have clinical studies behind us and are now moving into product development and so have just
raised about 1.5 million and actually a couple grants from the US government to move us from that
those clinical stages through product development and all the way through to market.
6:33
So unique challenges there, you know, but you know, probably some some, you know, relevant strings
throughout both Denise and and Bertrand's stories with ours as well.
6:45
So thank you for having us.
6:48
Thank you Ryan.
6:49
Welcome Bertrand.
6:51
Hello, how about you?
6:53
I'm Bertrand Dupla, I'm a Co founder and CEO of robot.
6:57
We are proving you also just like Ryan, we are going for a moon shop robot.
7:03
We are developing A subminimetric, A minimetric micro robot, very tiny robot that is going in the
brain for a neurosurgical intervention.
7:14
So it's a it's a tiny robot that goes transcranially and that is used in the hands of a neurosurgeons to
move in the brain parenchyma in curves, whereas every tool today that exists moves in a straight line.
7:27
And the curves open new possibilities, new new diagnostic and new therapeutic possibilities.
7:33
Mostly because you can go to heart rich location, but also because you can go to multiple location
with just one Berol.
7:41
And that opens the way to a better understanding of the brain, therefore better treatment,
personalized medicine.
7:47
We just raised 30,000,000 in, in January this year and that gets us to the, the current phase all through
the the next one, basically the first in humans.
8:01
So we're going to be able with that amount to start our first in humans.
8:05
So our first trials on actual patients of the the microbot.
8:09
Then we'll raise again to go further to, to market.
8:13
Very nice.
8:14
Thank you, Bertrand.
8:16
And can you tell me some more what were the biggest challenges?
8:20
And I'll, I'll direct this to Ryan first.
8:24
What are the biggest challenges you faced in securing funding over the past year?
8:27
And right, it's particularly interesting since you also have the government money as well.
8:32
Tell us some more.
8:34
Yeah, I know, you know, I think I think each start up has some unique challenges.
8:41
But I think, you know, because of the market space and how everything's shifting a little bit later in
terms of proof points and milestones that everybody wants to see, You know, we had a unique
challenge in just identifying I think initially who we were going to go raise from.
8:56
And so put out a lot of feelers in terms of, you know, Angel investors, Angel groups, early stage VC.
9:03
And for us, it was aligning the message of, you know, what we were were selling for this round in
terms of an investment and where we were going to get to with what was expected from those
investors.
9:14
And so for us, it was a lot of taking the planning that we did and then operationalizing it in terms of
actually going out and seeing, you know, what, what the appetite was for an early stage medtech
company.
9:26
I think like, like Bertrand, we're going for a moon shot in terms of, you know, this is a completely new
market.
9:32
There's nothing out there for this right now.
9:35
And so aligning kind of that messaging between like, look, this can change a lot for the lives of the
patients that were that we can help millions of patients around the world each year with then, hey,
how are we going to execute on our de Novo application, right?
9:50
Those are two very different messages and sometimes are hard to to piece, hard to piece together in a
coherent, you know, I don't know, 5 minute, you know, presentation to, to an investor to keep them
hooked, especially when you don't know who that investor is going to be.
10:04
And so that was for us a big challenge and it was just identifying what, where, where do we fit in this
new kind of stage of seed precede Series A and where do those investors live.
10:17
So we navigated it, but it was it was certainly probably one of our biggest challenges throughout the
process.
10:24
Yeah, great.
10:25
Thank you for that.
10:26
And and Denise, coming from the other side of the spectrum and being commercial stage, can you
comment from your perspective on challenges that you faced?
10:36
Yeah, and for correct.
10:37
And and for us was interesting because the company is undergoing a full transformation, right.
10:43
And and I came on board about six months ago.
10:46
We did a full restructuring.
10:48
We reset evaluation as well.
10:50
And it's we're relaunching the product with a lot of improvements.
10:55
So it's kind of that uncertainty, there's uncertainty in the market, but that uncertainty into it's almost
like starting from scratch, but already being commercial, right.
11:04
So it was, how do I aligned that message?
11:07
How do we make sure that it's clear that that story is clear?
11:12
But we also faced some groups, especially the ones that had had conversations with a company
previously that they were like, OK, we like the story, but we'll wait and see, right.
11:22
We'll wait and see until you can show us that it will actually work, that you will actually deliver.
11:27
So some of the ways we navigated through that was we had really strong support from some of our
existing investors where they actually were putting in the vast majority of the investment in the round.
11:40
And, and what we're still trying to do is how to complement them with a couple to create a stronger
syndicate.
11:46
But it was the story of, look, our existing investors trust and believe.
11:52
So it's almost using that story to overcome those challenges, but also limited the type of investor we
would reach too, because even though it's a Series D, we're not raising a huge amount like totally it's
about 2025 million.
12:05
And they would, the ones, the big funds that invest in late stage commercial companies are not
interested in that, those types of rounds, right?
12:13
And, and the ones that invest 5, they say 10 million, they probably want earlier stage companies.
12:20
So it was aligning who is the right investor, the right story and the credibility because they some of
them are like, OK, fine, all sounds great.
12:29
Come back in two quarters and show me that that that actually work.
12:34
Yeah, it's interesting.
12:35
I think that wait and see kind of mentality we're seeing out there is going to resonate through all of
you.
12:41
And Denise, it's it's interesting from the commercial standpoint.
12:45
So you had passed investors to to leverage.
12:49
So I'd love to dive some more into that.
12:50
But first, Bertrand, maybe I'll turn it over to you with the next question that plays into that.
12:56
You're, you're coming in a very different state.
12:58
How did the uncertainty in the market, either the macroeconomic or sector specific or anything else
change how you position the company to investors and, and did you need to adapt along the way?
13:11
Of course we, we needed to adapt.
13:13
And I think that you, it's, it's clear that every company is, is, is very specific, you know, and it's very
difficult to use generic information and even advice that that is addressed to us.
13:27
But from coming from a completely different experience, you know, so you need to adapt and to
adjust.
13:33
But I think really what's important and I think it's been said already is that you have to adapt the, the
message also to the phase you're in.
13:39
We, we had initially a phase where it was extremely R&D intensive.
13:43
Nobody and no VC likes to invest in this.
13:47
So we had to find business angels different type of investor.
13:50
And then once we had the first prototype, we get into more of a classical deep tech, I would say
startup, but still, you're not, you're, you're a bit too risky for large VCs and you have to position
yourself well.
14:03
And then, you know, after a few hurdle were passed, we were able to, to get the, the top VCs for the,
the, the series.
14:12
And that was, that was amazing.
14:13
But I, I, I think that you have to adapt and you have to accept that it's non linear, you know, like a
great funnel helps.
14:21
But at the end of the day, what's going to happen is that what happened to us is we met someone at
a conference completely randomly, or maybe not so randomly because we were at this conference
and that that person introduces to somebody in her fund and he made the term sheet and that was it.
14:38
You know, everything was triggered out of this.
14:40
So everything you have a funnel.
14:42
You see that many investors step by step.
14:45
In the end, it's something else that triggers it, you know, and I think that you have to accept the
unpredictability, you know, and that the, the day before you, you get the term sheets, you, you don't
have much in your hands.
14:57
Yeah, I, I like to call those random collisions serendipity.
15:05
And, and Bertrand, thank you for that.
15:07
And, and Ryan, what about you in a, a kind of a similar earlier stage that you're in?
15:14
So how, how did you deal with the, the high uncertainty and did you have to adapt along the way?
15:20
Yeah, I know.
15:20
I, I think, you know, from a, from a macro perspective, I think people are kind of holding a little bit in
terms of, you know, the, the everybody said it already, the classic like, oh, come back to me with the
data.
15:30
I mean, I think people are amusing that a bit more in terms of, you know, an excuse to to not deploy.
15:37
But I think there's still conviction out there, just needs to be built in a different way, right.
15:41
Like those like what Bertrand was talking about, the conviction comes from learning, I think more
about the founders, the mission, like you meet somebody in person as opposed to not right now.
15:51
Like like Bertrand was talking about, like you have a funnel, but like everybody's meeting everybody
over zoom these days.
15:57
And right the moment you get in front of somebody and talk to them and meet them and know them.
16:01
And, and maybe to Denise's kind of point earlier is like her investors know, you know, the company,
they know the people, they understand kind of what the investment is a little bit more.
16:10
And so they can have conviction to make that that call.
16:13
But it I think about our investors and the people that have have come in and are round and it was
relationships built over time and in person.
16:21
And, and, you know, I think the conviction comes from that in terms of, you know, in terms of an
investment much more though.
16:29
So then say like in 20/20/21 where everything, you know, cash is like flowing out of the door and you
just needed to make sure that the company was, you know, a real company and that like it was a good
bet to a certain degree.
16:40
I think it's much more different today.
16:42
I think it's a bit of more of an old school approach in a, in a new age realm where like, you know, the
shaking the hands of people.
16:50
One of our first investors I met at A at a Patriots Buffalo Bills game, the right team didn't win that day,
but you know, we ended up becoming friends and like, and, and that relationship ended up panning
out in, in terms of a business relationship too.
17:04
So you can't really script that.
17:07
And, and maybe that's the hardest part about fundraising right now, but they're still out there.
17:12
And I think the macroeconomics of, of today is just, you know, building that starts to take away some
of those doubts of, of investors.
17:21
And, and so relationship building is still super important today.
17:25
Yeah, it's interesting.
17:27
I mean, I'm sure people who were used to fundraising, say 345 years ago might find that frustrating.
17:34
But I think for those of us who have raised prior to that, that seems a little more normal and like you
said, maybe in an updated way with Zoom and forums like that.
17:45
Yeah, it's tough when the expectation is Zoom today and you know the but the deals are being done
because of other reasons.
17:51
So like there, there will be I'm sure like some some crash together in alignment at at some point.
17:56
But I think it it's yet to happen really.
17:59
Yeah, Great.
18:00
Thank you.
18:02
Maybe with the next question, I'll continue right along similar lines and and turn over to you, Denise.
18:08
How important were commitments to milestones?
18:11
So then it's getting into the theme of building confidence and building that relationship.
18:16
So commitment, so milestones like regulatory, clinical, technical or anything else to build up trust or
credibility with investors.
18:24
How important was that for you?
18:25
Yeah.
18:26
I think that's becoming more and more important.
18:29
It's a little bit a question of the chicken and the egg, right?
18:32
You kind of need the funding to meet your milestones and they want to see the milestone milestones
come.
18:38
So I would say it's, it's almost like providing a lot of clarity on what do you plan to do with, with the
funds, right?
18:45
And, and this is where it's going to take us and this is how we're planning on doing it.
18:50
And then just keeping them updated on the progress towards those, those milestones.
18:55
I think when, when people are more, when times are more uncertain, where people are being more
careful with their investment, they're, they're trusting you with their money.
19:03
So that trust factory is super important, but they also want to make sure that they're trusting what
does not that money is going to be used for.
19:11
We have had some tranched investments based on on milestones, but I've tried to manage those to
not make them like black or white or so tight that it becomes almost unmanageable because you
need to have that flexibility.
19:26
Things happen.
19:27
The FDA is unpredictable.
19:29
There's a lot of change going there as well, right?
19:33
Market conditions change and you need to have that flexibility.
19:37
But I think being very clear at least has helped me in gaining that trust from investors.
19:43
And then every time we meet a master, communicate with them and say, OK, we said we're going to
do this, this is the update, here's what's working.
19:51
And that just helps building, building that trust.
19:55
Excellent.
19:56
And and Bertrand, I see you nodding your head as well.
19:59
Did you have similar experiences building the commitments or building the credibility through the
commitments of different types?
20:07
Yeah, absolutely not not.
20:09
We didn't have trench money, you know that we had to meet the milestone to to get the next round.
20:14
But we of course, the one thing is the milestone.
20:18
I, I think that they should be, shouldn't be micromanaged.
20:21
Like like Denise said, you know, you like that to be within 1/4.
20:25
If you, if you can do it, you know, you cannot say it's going to be the 18th of September and if it's the
19th, you're dead.
20:30
You know, that's, that's, that's absurd in, in a line of work.
20:33
But at the same time, I think investors also, they want you, they want to see that you move forward
fast and that you keep your milestone, but also they want to see how you react when there is a
problem, because there will be problem, you know, and, and, and instead of hiding it and say, oh, we,
we, we're missing one month.
20:52
What should we do?
20:53
Barbara, I think it's interesting to, to, to show exactly what you did, you know, and why and, and, and
think that that builds confidence or so that's part of what Ryan was saying.
21:03
You, you need to, to feel the, the person in front of you, not just the, the, the face of the screen.
21:09
And that's part of it.
21:10
And and for us and, and for us in in medtech, I think with moon shot projects that will take long, that
will have hurdles where troubles will happen.
21:19
You know, the way we react when they do is really important.
21:23
And, and and that has to come out also to to create this trust.
21:27
You know, if you if you keep it outside the rug and don't speak about it, that's not going to create
trust.
21:32
Nobody's going to believe that you never run into trouble and that you won't.
21:36
But all you deal with it is what matters most, I think.
21:40
Great, thank you.
21:42
And and Ryan, what about for you the milestones and and building that?
21:47
Yeah, I don't have too much yeah, I don't I don't have too much to add in terms of of what's already
been said.
21:54
I think, you know, in terms, you know, one of the things that we've seen it help really well with this
past investors coming back in and just updating them on the milestones that we we've talked about
and kind of what the next steps are just keeping them informed and, and showing that.
22:09
Yeah, like when hurdles come up, we've This is why we're going this direction instead of that direction
now.
22:15
We thought it was going to be this because everybody knows you like we start with this big like target
and it's really our job to navigate our way through that.
22:23
But it's never, it's never linear in the rays, but it's never linear in in building as well.
22:28
So just keeping everybody apprised of that.
22:31
And then we've seen a lot of investors, new investors come and over, you know, knowing them over a
year, a year and a half for when they come to the next round.
22:42
We've now informed them a lot like they knew where we were and now they knew they see how we
grow and, and it wasn't zero to 1.
22:49
And, and they can kind of then make a call based on how we've progressed through those, those, you
know, different hurdles and things like that.
22:57
So I think it not only pays dividends with current investors, but you know, future investors as well.
23:04
So, yeah, makes sense.
23:06
And, and Ryan, for for you, how, how did you prioritize which investors to talk to, which one to spend
the time with and, and how and how did you get their attention?
23:17
It's like a very noisy environment that I yeah, it is.
23:21
Yeah.
23:22
So I mean, there's like anything I think I'm a engineering by, I'm an engineer by trade.
23:26
So like, there's a lot of research that goes into what I do up front.
23:30
And you know, we built out lists based on, you know, who was, who had invested in our space before,
You know, what had they invested in?
23:37
Why, what stage, how much money were they the first investor they lead?
23:42
Were they the first investors in, you know, and, and those sorts of things.
23:46
And we build a, we built out a list and then we were like any good startup, flexible in terms of then
next steps.
23:54
We learned from each interaction, you know, you 10 Series A investors, OK, that's way too far.
24:01
But now we know the milestones that we have to hit for them ten seed, you know, VCs and, and kind
of just continue to work our way through and try to try to understand where they're coming from.
24:10
But we are pretty ruthless in terms of who we wanted to talk to 1st and, and, and try to understand
that where they're coming from so that we can understand how to then message, I think going
forward.
24:23
But you know, it is, it was fairly interesting.
24:27
You know, we ended up shifting early.
24:31
So individual angels and Angel groups and, and precede VCs because that's, that was what was
aligning with the milestones that we had coming forward.
24:40
And the, and to Denise's point, the Czech size that we're asking for and started to do because of the
macroeconomics is we ended up doing a rolling close, right?
24:50
So we ended up, you know, kind of, you know, getting burned by the macroeconomics of it.
24:56
When we, when we came to close, people were, had been affected by XY and Z.
25:01
And so we're investing less, right?
25:03
And so then we shifted and we just said, you know, what, like we're just going to, we're going to
manage this ourselves.
25:08
We're going to rolling close this.
25:09
And it worked really well.
25:11
I think it worked really well for the investors.
25:14
They got to to get in early and and see the progress and, and it worked really well for for us.
25:20
And so, yeah, I think that's, that's how we ended up doing it.
25:24
I think probably three years from now it won't work that way.
25:28
Four years ago it wouldn't work that way.
25:30
But, but I think that's and, and do you mean that Ryan won't work that way from for your company or
in general?
25:41
Maybe both.
25:42
I mean, I, I think, I think the important part about fundraising is to have a plan and then to, to be
flexible.
25:47
Like, I mean, maybe have three plans, right?
25:49
Like you go out and you have like, you're like, ideally this is how this works.
25:52
I mean, even Bertrand, you know, said it and Denise said it as well.
25:54
Like you have all these, you know, ideally this is how it will work out.
25:58
I'll close in two weeks.
25:59
I'll get general catalyst on.
26:01
They'll take like the, you know, like that's how it it's going to go and have being flexible and in
reacting to kind of what the market is telling you.
26:10
Like anything else allows you to then to to to be in a good position to raise the rest of your funds the
way that the market is telling you need to raise them.
26:19
But the market's going to be totally different in a few years.
26:22
And so the rolling close thing might not be that we made, you know, this, this company picked up in
place three years later, might be raising from large VCs, you know, a lot more money, right, like and
pushing forward.
26:35
So I think it's just just reading the tea leaves in terms of the market and then being able to react to it.
26:41
Yeah, interesting.
26:42
Yeah, it is interesting how it's it does constantly shift and change and the ability to adapt and change
with that is important.
26:51
And Bertrand, how did you for your investors for Robotay, how did you prioritize who to talk to and
how did you get their attention?
27:00
There were phases, you know, the first phase was really resort.
27:03
So it was business angels and and and and we find an amazing community that supported us in even
the hard time later because they were a hard time later.
27:14
But but the VCs and, and the, the, the, the seed and the, the series Avci think that the, the learning
that we had is that initially we're going for a purely Med tech VCs and we found out that that was not
the best, the best way to do it.
27:31
So we do have purely metech VCs, but we balance that with deep tech VCs because the, what we're
doing micro about the story is somewhat somewhat easy to, to explain.
27:43
You know, more than if we're doing biotech, pure biotech, for instance.
27:47
And for that's appealing also to deep tech.
27:50
And, and so they, they have usually they have larger funds.
27:54
The discussions are a bit faster than deep than pure Med tech.
27:59
So we have pure Med tech, we have corporate V CS in Med tech also, and we have deep tech V CS
and, and the the biggest one with that.
28:08
So, so I think it's really experience and and tries and error makes you find your target more easily, you
know, and or it's not easy anywhere, but it's it's it's much, much better targeted than when you expect
initially.
28:23
And for us it was that.
28:25
Yeah, great.
28:26
And, and just a couple more questions before I start to open it up with some more general questions
to all of you and and to the Q&A.
28:33
And Bertrand, once you had, so you, you targeted the certain investors and you, you at some point
you're starting to gain momentum.
28:41
And maybe with a few, how did you maintain the momentum with them?
28:46
And, and how did you, how are you able to convert that into the actual final financial commitment?
28:50
It's you, you can't sustain the momentum.
28:56
So, So what that means for maybe I'm generalizing, but I think that you can sustain a relationship, but
not the momentum.
29:04
So when you have VC that want to invest, but they won't, they don't want to be lead and they're
expecting for a lead.
29:10
What my experience does, if it's too long and then you find the lead, they're not going to come at as
follow because their, their interest has shifted.
29:19
You know, they they're still interested in knowing more about you, but in some of that you've missed
the boat, they've missed the boat, you know.
29:26
So from the the lead we have to recreate the the the line up basically of follow investors or Co leads
and we did it really well.
29:37
That was amazing, that one really fast.
29:39
But I think that the momentum is momentum.
29:42
If if you don't do something with it because you can't, it's going to be lost and you're going to have to
rebuild it.
29:47
But it's possible to rebuild it.
29:49
The the one thing that was extremely slow and there was barely any momentum.
29:53
It was really like we were surprised was corporate VC, you know, they don't have the same timing as as
VCs sometimes.
30:00
And so you can prepare for a long, long, long discussions and and diligent.
30:04
But in the end we got through and and we got them and we're really happy with with that.
30:10
But there was a different time, different time zone, you know, like different world in terms of that
momentum.
30:17
Yeah.
30:17
And, and would you say so the corporate on the corporate side, it was much, much, much longer time
frame.
30:23
Yeah, the, the, the, the corporate time frame.
30:26
I mean, maybe there are exceptions, but the, the corporate time frame is, is much longer, much
longer.
30:32
It's, it's not in the same category as, as this is.
30:36
And, and, and Bertrand, from your side, I'm interested, did you find differences in your investors
between Europe and the US and maybe you also looked elsewhere geographically, I don't know.
30:50
I, I, you know what, what I found very different is generational, the generation, the, the mindset of VCs,
not so much across, across continents, you know, and so it's generational, but it doesn't have to do
with the age.
31:07
You know, it's, it's really the mindset.
31:09
I, I saw a huge difference between old school VCs.
31:13
We use reason to an extreme that's unreasonable.
31:17
You know, they, they want to excel you to the death to death.
31:21
And you, you can't have, you can create a new category with an excel based on old information from
existing company from existing category.
31:30
So this, this were what I would call the old school mindset and that didn't work very well for us and for
them.
31:37
And, and, and the new mindset is really balancing really the, the, the excel.
31:42
So the reason with intuition, you know, what with what you gather through meeting the people,
discussing with them, etcetera.
31:49
And this is this is very reasonable when it comes to doing something new that is not going to fit into
a, you know, a standard excel.
31:59
Basically, it's more generational than than across continent.
32:07
I found out.
32:09
Great.
32:09
Denise, you look like you were going to say something.
32:12
I'm curious if this resonates with you again in a different state in your company.
32:17
So when you brought up the different geographies that that's something that actually helped us a lot,
right?
32:23
The, the IA 100% agree.
32:25
The VCs in the US are still being slower and probably a little bit more careful, right.
32:31
And, and again, the company had already talked in the past with a lot of them.
32:35
So we did take the approach of looking outside.
32:39
And when you look into Asia, when you look into the Middle East, when you look into these other
regions, there is an appetite for investment, there is an appetite for innovation.
32:50
And then you have to adjust your story a little bit because they also want to see, OK, what's your plan
to come into Asia, right.
32:56
And we actually actually accelerated some of our plans to to try to find, to find a way to to expand
geographically or globally on both ends on the commercial end, so we can also get the investment
end.
33:10
And I found I have found those conversations to be actually very refreshing because it's they are at a
different stage to where the US is right now.
33:20
So there is an appetite for investment.
33:23
Yeah.
33:24
And I have to ask for, for all of you, as someone who's based in Boston but loves to travel to California
and the West Coast, did you see coastal differences in investors?
33:36
I'll say the only, the only coastal difference that I saw, and maybe this is medtech, this might be a
medtech thing is since we are raising from, you know, angels and Angel groups in smaller vices, like
we raised on a convertible note.
33:51
Honestly, I don't know what that's that the safe mechanism has made it to medtech in Boston yet,
which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
33:59
I mean, either way, you know, but that was the one thing where, you know, I had I had investors not
even know what a safe was yet.
34:05
So we just went with a we just went with a traditional convertible note and that satisfied everybody.
34:11
But but I think that was for us maybe the only difference.
34:17
I will say though, that we we have a lot of investors from the Midwest and maybe this is just echoes
kind of what Denise was talking about.
34:23
You know, the investors in in San Fran, San Diego, LA, Boston, you know, they get flooded with Med
tech deals constantly.
34:31
Like we were one of a few groups that like went to the mid, you know, to the Midwest and you know,
they just weren't seeing the same volume, right.
34:41
And so they they there was a lot more excitement, I think from just like seeing something so
innovative in that space and we have ties to that those areas.
34:50
So that's that was a nice way in and things like that.
34:52
But you know, maybe those were just a few of the differences that we noticed from from our specific
set of investors.
35:01
Yeah, sure.
35:02
In the Midwest, I mean, you have great Med tech innovation, of course, coming out of Minnesota,
Chicago, Michigan, Indianapolis, So all over for sure.
35:15
I we have investors in the West Coast, investors in the East Coast and in the Midwest.
35:20
I, I, it, it wasn't a big differentiator for us, but yeah, we're probably, it was just an equity investment,
right.
35:29
So probably a little bit more more straightforward.
35:31
Where we did find differences is just in the size of the company, right?
35:35
We have a very large BC Arch Venture Partners who is our lead investor and we have family offices.
35:43
So even the the amount of like the legal review of the document you're talking to complete different
spectrums, right.
35:50
So we did find differences on that on that front.
35:53
Great.
35:54
OK, good.
35:54
Thank you for that.
35:56
OK, let me just open it up a little more and just say so for, for all of you, I'll let whoever wants to
answer and go first to to jump in.
36:05
So looking back, what would you do differently if you had an A chance to do it differently?
36:17
Maybe I can start.
36:18
I think some of the learnings and things that I adjusted along the way was what what's the focus?
36:26
Right at the beginning I was talking about the commercial roll out of, but I was talking about going
after new indications and I was talking about doing clinical studies for these new indications and the
potential of the device.
36:39
And I think it overwhelmed some of the investors.
36:42
It was like, OK, that's too much, right?
36:44
And you're restructuring the team and you want to do everything.
36:47
So I kind of changed my story based on who I was talking to.
36:50
If it was an investor that's really more attracted to the commercial aspect, the whole conversation and
the whole pitch deck was about commercial growth.
36:59
And there were a couple that I know like more of that or maybe they were in a different space and
they could feel attracted to some of the indications we are thinking about.
37:10
Then I would expand a little bit.
37:11
It's like, well, and this is our pipeline for new indications.
37:15
But I think just really knowing what's important to your investor and sticking to that.
37:20
If you give them too much information, it just overwhelms them and becomes difficult to follow.
37:25
So probably that's what I would do different.
37:28
Yeah.
37:28
I, I, I would go along the slightly different, but along the same lines in, in terms of like the story you
tell and not overwhelming, especially for us at the beginning, you know, we want to see amazing
investors a bit too early.
37:42
And so, you know, they see you again and again and again and you, you become a fixture, you know,
So then when you, when you come back with something completely new, they, they know too much,
they, they believe they know too much about you and, and you're not fresh and you as you could
have been if you had delayed that.
37:58
But it's, it's a 2 edged sword in the sense that talking to top investor at the beginning, you know, even
if that wears out the, the relation a bit, it makes you practice and, and know what it takes for them to
be successful.
38:12
And, and there when you meet others, you know, that have a, a fresh view on you, You're, you're more
you, you know more about it and you have more skills.
38:20
So I think that with the top notch investors that you're going to want to see later, some of them you
should use them as a sparring partner in a way and and others you should keep for when you're ready
to, to do it.
38:32
You know, that would be the the things that I changed for the rest, you know, you hurdles, troubles,
difficulties, you know, you have to go through them.
38:39
I, I don't see anywhere of completely avoiding that, you know, Yeah.
38:44
So virtually, it sounds like you saw it somewhat as a learning experience as you, you started talking
and, and learn from the conversations and started to refine your pitch.
38:54
And you have to some, somewhere you, you, you may have to sacrifice a few potential investments for
the learning that you get from the relationship.
39:04
Yeah.
39:05
How did you know?
39:07
Looking back, how, how would you know when the right time would be?
39:11
It's it sounds like your your, your recommendation there is to so choose.
39:15
Maybe some investors are more comfortable with very early stage, not quite fully formed ideas and
concepts.
39:25
Is that fair to say?
39:26
And before you go to the the ones that are expecting maybe have higher expectations in terms of
being more buttoned up and ready, is that fair to say?
39:37
Yeah, it's it's, it's a it's a difficult question, you know, like to do when is the right time?
39:44
I I think that it's never when you think you're going to, it's never when you're going to have to all the
data, you know, because if it's then you're, you're dead before you get all the data.
39:53
As Denny said, it's a chicken and egg.
39:55
You know, like she, she said that about the, the milestones, but it's same with the data.
39:58
You know, you need investment to get the data and you need back at data to get investment, but you
need the investment first in a way, you know, so you, you're going to have a lot of data.
40:07
You're going to have amazing data enough that, but in your mind, it's never going to feel like it's
enough and beforehand.
40:15
So I think that's that's.
40:18
But I think at some point you see a tipping point in the perception of the community in a way, you
know, not just investors, but conference, you may go to peers and you see the press, the media, it can
be different things.
40:30
And, and you see that it's shifting because you, you've proven enough that there is a momentum that
that builds up and, and there it's, it's when it's a phase, it can be a long phase, but it's when it
happens, I feel.
40:44
But you, you, you can't predict it.
40:46
You, you're going to feel it, you know, and, and hope that it matches to the period when you're
fundraising basically.
40:53
Yeah, yeah.
40:55
And what about you?
40:56
What would you do differently?
40:57
Yeah, I'll just add, I think both points in terms of like some of the data that you need in in the
fundraising process comes from the fundraising process itself.
41:07
Like you like the in terms like when to go raise the funds obviously has to do with the stage of your
business, but it also has to do with the appetite of the investors for for the stage of your business and
the messages from, you know, what you're trying to deliver, right.
41:22
So part of it is going out and actually talking to investors and, and hopefully you can try to do that in
like a safe space where like, you know, you don't need this investor or you know, somebody that's an
investor and you can get some of that feedback of, of why they know what's not hitting, what's not
landing.
41:36
Like we, we revised our message quite a bit, right, because the, The Who we were targeting ended up
shifting quite a bit.
41:46
And so we were coming at it from a very tactical perspective of like this is what we have to accomplish
to get to the FDA.
41:51
Like you guys will totally understand this market to like almost throttling it all the way back and being
like, look, we're inventing a completely new market segment.
42:01
Like we're inventing a blood pressure cuff where there wasn't one before.
42:06
It's the spaces that this can go into are ridiculous.
42:10
And then even further beyond that is, is almost bringing something that's familiar to to people and a
story to it to, to try to personify it, right.
42:21
And so we, there's no way that we could have learned that or, or felt like we were prepared enough to
like go fundraise without actually going into the process a bit and, and trying to, to hone that
message.
42:32
And so I do think a part of it is getting, you know, 8090% of the way there and feeling comfortable
with where the business is, what you need to fundraise, that you've looked forward and you can
answer questions enough and then it's, but then it's just kind of have to go do it.
42:48
And if you get the same question from 4 different people, be there, you're going to have to answer
that every time.
42:54
Or you should put that in your pitch, right?
42:55
Like so, so part of it is just feeling like you're almost there.
43:00
And that's probably like the time to, to start going in, in soft pitching and, and getting feedback
because I don't know how else you could, you could do it.
43:13
So even with past investors like I would never like, you know, it would be hard for me to go pitch for
follow on investment if I was, you know, if I didn't have all those ducks in a row.
43:25
Like you have to just, you have to get somewhat 80% of the way there.
43:29
And this is coming from an engineer by the way, like I want everything 110% done, which is not
possible.
43:35
So I've had to, I've had to, to kind of overcome that hurdle in myself is, is to get 80% of the way there
and then learn through the process itself.
43:45
So I'll just maybe that ties Denise and Bertrand's kind of message together.
43:49
But that's something I think we learned fairly well.
43:52
And I don't know how to do that better next time.
43:55
Like I think that's still going to be maybe I could plan it into the process a little bit more, but I think it's
an important part of it.
44:02
Yeah, I think it's, it's probably for with depending on your technology, depending on state, depending
on variables.
44:10
I really appreciate it.
44:11
So to your engineers and so for engineers, the whole chick thing is not well place to engage in right to
be very challenged.
44:24
What I'll do is we do have questions coming up.
44:28
Maybe I'll open it up to some Q&A.
44:30
And so we do have looks like maybe a couple questions at least one of your so someone wrote in
three-part in for Ryan and Burch.
44:42
How important do you feel it is to have a physician on board as a partner from day one?
44:47
What stage, what stage did you bring a physician into your team?
44:52
And looking back, do you think having that clinical perspective earlier?
44:59
My scroll isn't very good helped.
45:01
Let's say I I can do we we're doing neurosurgery.
45:07
So I'm a roboticist.
45:10
I'm an engineer also like Ryan.
45:12
So I suffer the same, the same issues, you know, and readiness and double guessing when when
you're be ready.
45:22
But in terms of that, that there's no way we could have done it without the support of neurosurgeons
very early on.
45:28
And we got a neurosurgeon aboard just before employee number one.
45:34
So he's a, he's a shareholder, although he's not a large shoulder in the company, but he's a significant
one.
45:39
He's still with us.
45:40
He's still, you know, like going full blast after all these years.
45:44
And he was there just after we started the company or just after we got the the idea of starting the
committee before employee number one, so very early on.
45:51
But because it is not a huge shoulder, it was also easier I think to embark older KOL, older
neurosurgeons in the adventure.
46:02
And and we did that very early on.
46:04
After one year we toured the US and got several KOL that are still with us.
46:09
All of them, some of them became investor also in the company.
46:12
So I think it's extremely important, but I don't think it's necessary to have them as a necessary as a
founding, you know, member of the the team that they can they can be a very early addition to the
team also.
46:27
Yeah, and I'll just I'll like I I think it probably depends on where you're coming from.
46:31
I know a lot of physician founded, you know, companies and I think it it benefits them quite a bit.
46:37
They'll but you know, they'll get questions on the other end, like you guys are physicians and you're
still practicing and who's actually going to make this and who's going to run the business.
46:44
So like, yeah, I think from from our perspective where, you know, we were engineers and operators
and and things of that nature, we ended up my Co founder and I love customer discovery.
46:57
We went out and interviewed over like 100 just to start the company, right?
47:02
So we interviewed everybody across the spectrum to to try to understand the pain point of where
they're coming from.
47:07
And that ended up yielding a lot of long term relationships that we can go and either refer investors
to or get quotes from or pick their brains on, right.
47:18
And so I think for us at the bare minimum at that early stage, having that, it was really important to us.
47:25
I, I think just from operating the business, quite frankly, right, understanding even where we're going
from was, was really important.
47:31
We had an assumption that we were supposed to go into this one space like our, our, our tools called
the, the Holy Grail of neurosurgery, right?
47:39
And so we're like, oh, well, that's where we should go.
47:40
And what ended up happening is we found a very different pain point that was much easier to target
has reimbursement codes like it fit really well into this space and we kind of redirected it right there,
right?
47:53
So without physicians, we there's, without our customers, we would have never figured that out.
47:59
Going forward, we're going to raise our Series A and we've identified like the, the fact that now we
need an MO, right?
48:05
We need, I think to raise our next round.
48:08
We've identified that that is a gap in what we want to do so that they're on calls, they're, they're
standing up.
48:13
We have a a cadre of of Kols that, you know, will talk about us and and to research with us and all that
sort of stuff.
48:21
But I think, you know, looking forward as opposed to looking back, it is something we're going to
build in longer term to grow.
48:28
And then they can manage different things that honestly that Chris and I just my Co founder and I
can't can't speak to.
48:33
We don't have that that education.
48:35
So I think it's important to some level.
48:39
I don't know that you have to go out and run to to get somebody on board, but you do you need
their perspective in what you're doing regardless.
48:47
Yeah.
48:48
And yeah, sorry, Petrellis has a history with physician and important part of your development.
48:55
So be good to hear from you, Ryan.
48:58
I was going to give a little bit of a different perspective.
49:00
100% agree with Ryan.
49:02
Your Kols, your physicians are the ones that even later on are going to help you spearhead the
technology, right.
49:09
They're the ones that are going to get other people excited and they are the ones that are really going
to support the company.
49:15
At least in our field, they're very used to investing in early stage companies.
49:20
So they're also a great source of funding for like pre seed money or Angel investments.
49:26
The only word of caution that I wanted to add is especially later, in later stages, I'm a bit skeptical
about having one physician on your board or or let's say 2 physicians on your board because then
they, if the rest of your board are investors or have a different commercial perspective or from a
different background, that kind of becomes the source of truth.
49:49
And everybody looks at them and we need to remember that that's the voice of one, right?
49:53
When you start scaling, each physician will do things differently and what that person believes is the
right way, maybe completely different from what your top customer thinks it's the right way.
50:04
So I will shield away from that and moved more to having clinical advisory boards where it's a mix of
physicians that can give you feedback and they can come and be part of your board meeting at some
point or can give a report for your board meeting.
50:20
But then we're having a more diversified view than just the voice of like 1 physician founder or one
KOL.
50:27
So that's my $0.05.
50:29
Very good.
50:31
Thank you.
50:31
OK, we have another question came in.
50:34
I'll open up to whoever wants to respond.
50:38
How did you protect your ideas in the early stages of gaining market insights, the days provisional
patents and then the there's a follow up question to that and how did you find days to begin work on
ideas?
50:56
I could ours is fairly so we actually built a lot of this on our grants and so had provisional and even we
had granted patents at the point where we actually started up.
51:09
And so ours is a little bit different.
51:13
You know, we still hold a lot of it close to chest.
51:15
The majority of our stuff is our secret sauce is built on algorithm.
51:19
In the end we have we've protected the rest through method patents, things of that nature and so
didn't feel as worried about, you know, NDA's at that point.
51:32
But once we went to more manufacture or, you know, design house and manufacturing, we got NDA's
in place for all for a lot of those things just because no, how was about to to be shared.
51:43
So and then lab space, we I'm at mass challenge right now in a lab space that was is free.
51:53
So shout out to mass challenge.
51:54
They were the first accelerator that we went through after we started up.
51:57
They're amazing.
51:58
They don't have like, let's say, wet lab space or anything of that nature, but we don't we didn't need it.
52:03
So that was, you know, we found it a little bit more easy to, to navigate and actually just signed our
first lease now to move into a manufacturing space up in Burlington, which was through Northeastern.
52:15
And it's because I'm in Northeastern go Huskies and ended up they have a great program for, for folks
that it's less money.
52:25
It's about I think $1200 a month, which is insane, but it's all we need at this point.
52:30
So, you know, we stayed virtual for as long as we could and now we can't.
52:36
So I think I think that was a benefit for us.
52:38
But there are programs out there where you can, you can get small lab spaces, wet lab spaces.
52:44
And so we were just very intent on only getting what we needed at the time because that is, you
know, a good portion of your early stage burn rate.
52:56
So anyone else, As for us, it's of course it's patterns, the contract that you have, including with
trainees.
53:07
But I think you, you need a little bit of a paranoid mindset once in a while, you know, and, and it's
necessary.
53:15
It's, it's, you know, you're that you're going too far, but it's better than nothing, you know, and that
helps, you know?
53:23
Yeah.
53:24
And I think that I would just add that what's important is know what you can share and what you
can't, but make sure your team knows it very well too.
53:33
And and you set those boundaries right and and that's when your trade secrets start becoming
important.
53:39
In a previous company, we did major exercise to try to map out what was even a trade secret because
at the beginning nobody thinks about it.
53:48
And so you you have to go through that exercise and and make sure your team knows, hey, this is
very confidential information.
53:54
This is critical to our mode of action.
53:56
We may not patented because we don't want our competitors to know about it and just start setting
those boundaries very, very early on.
54:05
Yeah, I just want to add a little like we also during the diligence process, like all of our meetings with
the FDA, certain things that like we didn't like that I'm not going to get up and pitch about.
54:17
But like, you know, we didn't end up putting just carte blanche into the data room and things of that.
54:21
Like we held certain things back that took us a lot of capital, a lot of time.
54:25
So to to Denise's point, like should that get out for whatever reason, right, it would make somebody
else's life a bit easier, right.
54:35
So we just wanted to make sure that we're putting as many barriers to people trying to do what we
do, even though we have IP in the space.
54:42
Like that's that doesn't that's not it, right.
54:44
So into Bertrand's point about being a little paranoid, right?
54:48
So it's OK to be a little paranoid, but you know, just know, know those lines you can over share
sometimes.
54:58
But I think as as long as your entire organization knows, that's probably probably the most important
part.
55:05
You don't want somebody thinking something is OK, that isn't so very good.
55:11
And I will add that I have also seen a shift from investors regarding IP and how they value that.
55:19
I think at some point it was extremely important and we would all use to put on our pitch decks.
55:23
I have these many patents, right?
55:26
And I think now they're less concerned about how many patents do you have, but how are you
securing your path to market, right.
55:34
So, so I think just having that cohesive view and being able to pitch that to investors and say, and This
is why we're unique, This is why we're protected and this is how we're going to protect it.
55:45
To go to market is more important than just saying, oh, we filed 10 patents or it's really hard, right?
55:52
A patent infringement lawsuit takes a lot of time, a lot of effort and a lot of resources.
55:57
So even if you have the patents, are you going to litigate them, right.
56:01
And, and so I think they're more worried about that, that mode that you can put based on all these
other parameters that you can do.
56:09
Yeah, very good.
56:11
We're all more of the time I do a final thing round question for every before we close.
56:18
But I'll let whoever went first One piece of it for a new opener who was embarking on the fundraising
process today.
56:31
What would you tell them?
56:38
All right, I'll, I'll go first.
56:42
It's a it's a humbling process.
56:47
I'll say that it always will be there.
56:50
Like, you know, you're putting your baby out there.
56:53
You're going to get feedback, you're going to get way more knows and I'm sure you're going to hear
this across like anytime you talk about investing at all, but just realize that like you're like you're the
opportunity, right?
57:08
This is your vision.
57:09
Don't compromise the vision of what you're building.
57:13
You know, learn things along the way, but realize that you're giving them their opportunity to invest.
57:20
You're giving like this.
57:22
This isn't just like they get another cranio sense, like there's cranio sense two over there and they go
get to invest in that, right?
57:28
This is this is their opportunity to invest in you and try to keep your head up as much as possible
throughout the process.
57:36
Like I said, I'm a big like feedback loop guy, like learn, incorporate it, but just know that this is like, you
know, this is what this you're the opportunity, not the other way around, right?
57:49
That's hard to keep in the front of your brain when you're asking them for money and they're saying
yes or no, you know, think of it as the other way, like you get, you're saying yes to them and taking,
you know, their money to, to further your, your vision.
58:06
So that's very difficult to do.
58:08
But if I could like incorporate that advice to myself somehow all the time, then, then I think I'd be in a
better place throughout the process.
58:16
So I can, I can go next.
58:22
I would say I agree 100% with Ryan.
58:25
You're going to get 100 no's and maybe one yes and your baby's going to be called ugly and you
have to be OK with that.
58:34
My one piece of advice would be you will hear a lot of feedback and I get it even from board
members and from existing investors.
58:41
Oh, you should do this.
58:42
You should do that.
58:44
Why don't you change this?
58:45
Why don't you change that?
58:46
Don't just go running and try to do everything that they tell you, like know what you're trying to do.
58:52
Be able to get all that information, process it.
58:55
There may be things that are worth pursuing, but don't feel like you need to please everybody and try
to adjust your story, your pitch, your product to please everybody because you're going to end up in a
sport where you're not going to please anybody.
59:10
So keep pushing until you find the people that align with what you're trying to do.
59:17
I completely agree with what Ryan and and Denise said and, and what you just finished with Denise,
you know, go, go with the people, go along with you.
59:26
I think it's the most important.
59:27
I think that when people are, seem half interested, they're not interested, you know, when they ask for
too many data, what's your sales projection in 10 years, blah, blah, blah.
59:36
What's going to be the, the name of your great grandchildren when you don't have any children to
start with, etcetera.
59:42
They're not interested.
59:43
It's, it's a way to say no in a way, you know, and so don't chase this and, and try to create a, a
presentation of data and, and, and offering and, and a company where you will find one, at least or a
few that are going to be really interested.
59:58
And, and you're going to feel it.
59:59
And and then you'll have discussions, you know, of course, but it's, it's not the same traction then
when when somebody's really interested.
1:00:06
And it's going to be with you and help you then when you have to beg, you know, for attention and
then for feedback.
1:00:12
So I think really to, to be a bit tough and discard those who seem half interested because they're not
interested is the best way to go and go to those who are interested.
1:00:22
And when they are no, and when nobody is interested yet, you know, continue perfect your, your
messages, perfect your data.
1:00:30
Go along and and you'll find them and they'll find you very good.
1:00:34
OK, I think we're out of time like to to thank you.
1:00:38
And and in closing address, I do see a full question on availability of the webinar.
1:00:46
So Dale let you cover that as we say, if you don't mind.
1:00:50
And the other one is reaching out to any of the panelists for the I'll remind you that all the panelists
volunteer emails.
1:01:00
You can see that in the next their name.
1:01:04
So you feel free to and to with any questions yet following up.
1:01:15
Absolutely.
1:01:16
I would just want to say thank you to our fantastic panel for such an insightful webinar.
1:01:23
Brian, Denise, Ryan, Bertrand.
1:01:24
This is fantastic and very helpful for everyone.
1:01:29
I just want to remind the registrants and everyone that is attending today that the presentation as well
as any other follow up materials will be sent out to everyone at the start of next week.
1:01:41
And I encourage you in the meantime, if you have any questions for anybody, please reach out, as
Brian had said to the emails that are in everyone's display names.
1:01:53
Outside of that, really appreciate Sunrise Labs, Centralis robots from Craniosense, and we'd absolutely
look forward to performing any future webinars.
1:02:07
Thank you.
1:02:07
Thank you very much.
1:02:09
Thank you, guys.
1:02:10
Thank you.
1:02:10
Bye, bye.
1:02:11
Take care.